Question to all the DIY juice makers using concentrates...

Pipettes are not accurate measuring devices, except as droppers. Syringes are great, but I don't have one that measurses 0.025 ml. The measurement required was 0.25%, not a quarter of 10ml. Not so simple?

Drops are completely necessary for some things, in particular doing drop tests for testing flavours which is highly recommended. Also a one drop/5ml or 10ml is not an unusual adjunct addition. When it comes time to scale these recipes up you need to have some idea what a drop is in relation to real volume or you will fall into a few traps. Most people will get different results for PG and VG even with the same dripper. The supposed convention of "20 drops per ml" is only true for thick VG (temp dependent) and with certain equipment. I don't even come close to that for anything.


The other thing is, the objective was to slide a few people into DIY the easy way, and drops is the easiest non-threatening method. Making it as simple as possible allowed us to do over the internet what should really have been done in the classroom, given that they had been having poor experiences with it trying to pick it up on their own. Everyone who had successes last night (and I suspect there was more than just two of them) should be congratulated for sticking with it and creating something they can be proud to vape.

For those scaling recipes up I can recommend a range of different size syringes. I have 30,20,10,5,2.5, and a 1 ml syringe which is very useful for measuring those minor additions once you get up to making 30 and 50ml batches. (provided you have an accurate drops/mls conversion of course)

 

I see your point fabricator. And yes, I agree re pipettes. I just threw that in cos some people like them.

Yep, also wasn't thinking with the .25%. Which would equate to using a 1ml syringe and guessing a half point on it.

OK, I concede that drops are useful for newbies or people making up small amounts. I only ever make up larger amounts even to test, up to 5ml or so, so have never had the need. I tend to change stuff across batches, which is why I make up a bigger amount.

Basically means I refute my whole last post lol. Forget I ever spoke.

There are people that have a use for drops, dammit.

 

That's OK, there's more than one approach to all of of this. It does't hurt to remind everyone that there are other ways of doing things.

I just posted my Lucky Strike recipe on e-liquid-recipes.com as I've taken into to a 10ml batch after a little tweek:

Lucky Strike 10ml 80/20 12mg/ml by fabricator4 - e-Liquid Calculator

No I didn't use drops, be.comse I used the 1ml syringe to measure accurately (but at least I knew what the real percentages were).

 

i'm sorry for the noob question guys, but during all this mixing....are we tasting as we go? or letting steep before tasting? what's the general consensus?

thanks heaps for the recipes guys i'm putting them in my recipe book to try. i'll probably make 5ml versions of them to try and perfect before mixing up full batches. i tried my new york cheesecake at 15% and it was barely tasteable. I'm gonna up the percentage to 20% to see how that goes....i've been trying all my bases by themselves to see how they taste before mixing. KBM suggested mixing my mixes once i know what they taste like and feel they'll taste good with and i liked the idea.

 

In regards to drops, I'll use them for strong things like koolada, menthol, nut mix, acetal pyrazine etc and then when I have it down pat I'll then put the amount of drops into a 1ml syringe and convert it to a % for making up larger batches.

 

I mix up a single mL to drip for a new flavour.. which is where the micro pipette comes in very handy. I can mix down to as fine as 1/80th of a single mL.
I used to mix with nicotine to start with, be.comse it does contain a flavour.. nicotine has a flavour lol
Now I mix just with pg and vg and flavourings be.comse testing was making me OD on nic and I could only mix for short periods of time without getting negative side effects.
I hate waste and I've tipped out enough 10mL bottles of botched up flavours I've been working on to make mixing a very small amount to drip appealing.
Steeping pretty much always improves a flavour, by mellowing it out. I find sometimes I need to spruce something up a bit once it's been left for a while, be.comse it's got too mellow.
I sort of know what the nicotine is going to do to the flavour now, so I can add that at the end, before the final tweaking if any is needed.

So yes and no. I want everything I make to taste okay straight off the bench, but sometimes I leave things for a couple of days, be.comse there's only so much you can add to a flavour before you go too far.
I have found the micro pipettes I bought from Perfumer's apprentice are accurate enough for how I use them.

Samtron, dessert flavours are the most likely to need steeping in my experience. Fruit flavours nearly never need steeping, and I don't really know much about tobaccos. I only mix the odd doubler or tripler for MrGruffy in tobaccos.

 

You have to test as you go, otherwise you don't know where you're at. Any suggestions we make for recipes are just that - suggestions. You will need to change them to suit what you like to vape.

It is a good idea to try flavours on their own first. This gives you some idea of how strong they are and how they vape or what they could bring to a flavour as an adjunct. I get most of my ideas from doing this and it's a very important part of DIY.

ETA:
Regarding the steeping, it's a matter of experience and you start to get some idea how a particular flavour is going to work out. Grahame Cracker gets more muted and mellow for example. Most tobaccos do tend to get stronger with steeping and that is why most people will tell you that you have to leave them.

 

So next on my wish to try mix is a nice creamy chocolate custard! I havent had much luck with the taste of chocolate flavoured doublers so DIY seems logical enough! I dont like dark chocolate though so milky would be nicer. Any thoughts or suggestions? Would I still use a vanilla custard concentrate or would this have to be just a stand alone custard if there is such one available (think most custard has vanilla anyway or?)
xo

 

bethydy - Maybe get some Halo Belgian Cocoa doubler from Eciglife and using that as the base? It's pricey but that's the only chocolate flavour I've come across that has a natural taste to it and you might not need a lot in your mix.

 

Lol, your wish is my command, wanted to do something similar as well-into the mixing room I go again, also going to have a go at Cursing Tart

 

thanks again for all of this guys.

this is all really informative and interesting if not a lil overwhelming for a noob with a lil brain.

i'm looking forward to coming back and re-reading all of this over and over.

as for making small batches? i've been making 10ml batches and i'll dumb that down to 5ml batches soon. i'm using percentages and syringes straight off and taking HEAPS of notes. i'm also gonna to take mrs gruffy's advice and pick 6 recipes and stick to them till i get them right...THEN pick another 6 lol.

Mrs gruffy can i ask about the alcohol? you add a couple of drops per clearo? to thin the juice out i think you said? is it also to increase the throat hit? i've been looking to increase the throat hit. not so much the size of it but the regularity of it. I'm either having wicking trouble or getting used to it and needing a break between vapes. when i try using two clearo's in tandem the throat hit doesn't come back till i've given it a break

 

Oh that sounds good Sax, please let me know how you go.

I am just puffing away on a little concoction I made up 4 days ago, Strawberry and Banana Cream. Quite a simple mix but I am easily pleased with fruity flavours I didnt have ripe banana and ripe strawberry which are two of quite a few I have just ordered from VC. I think they would be nicer in this mix than just plain strawberry and banana.

Another flavour I would like to try is that of an icecream I tried the other night, Mango and Lime Icecream. The flavours went very well together, I am just not sure how you get the icecream flavour?? Vanilla??

Having so much fun my house is going to be overrun with juices soon, bought premixes, bought doublers and DIY ones I am making! LOL
xox

 

i'm taking a slower approach. I'd love to jump in the deep end but already feel i HAVE...lol

still planning on mixing my single concentrate mixes together to make combinations of them.

 

I've already answered Sam about how I use alcohol, but thought others might also be interested. Some flavours, especially minty menthols go well with a high VG ratio. Now that gets you the odd problem depending on your juice delivery system (clearo, carto, tank, etc) with dry hits. VG is really thick, and sometimes doesn't wick so well. If that happens, I add the tiniest amount (a drop at a time) into the JDS, shaking vigorously (if you can.. some of them leak if you do this, so you'd have to mix the alcohol into the bottle in that case) until the wicking issue goes away. I don't think it means there's any real alcohol content in the vape.. besides which, many flavours actually contain alcohol anyway, and I've never felt impaired by a flavour, except be.comse it's pure arse juice! lol

On the chocolate custard, I think your goal should be a hint of chocolate. I haven't found a single chocolate which tastes good on it's own. Unfortunately, it's not the same as adding cocoa or block chocolate to your custard and getting a rich chocolatey custard. Flavours are chemically based.. perhaps naturally occurring chemicals (our bodies produce formaldehyde in very minute amounts!) and chemicals react to one another in different and sometimes unexpected ways. Many flavours taste delicous at very low ratios, but if you increase the ratio, they become absolutely rank.

What I think would be cool, and I'm still wondering how it could be done, is if we could layer flavours in the same JDS.. imagine having potato and leek soup, followed by roast lamb with mint, finished with crepe suzette all in the same clearo? Very occasionally I get a flavour which tastes totally different on the inhale and exhale.. usually the ones who have a strong and a weak flavour.. and I'm sure it's sensed on different parts of the tongue on the inhale and exhale. I have a really lovely apple cinnamon flavour where you get apple(like the apple in McDonald's apple pie combined with the apple in nanna's apple pie) on the inhale and a rich cinnamon pastry on the exhale.

Sam.. single concentrate flavours mixed together is definitely the way I go. Get them really nice individually first, and then combine them, and adjust as you need to. It can be difficult to tweak with a concentrate be.comse they're just so strong to start with.

 

Lot's of 5ml mixes that have been steeping for a few day's I'm now going to try, been shaking them cap on and cap off's with all of them for about 4 day's now, most are dessert types @ 12 mg, surely these mixes have steeped enough by now, this is one very impatient mixer here now running out of bottles fast, what with V1-V2 and V3 versions it's driving me nuts waiting on them.
btw Mrsgruffy--I can't wait to try my Choc custard-it smells delish, just like those Yoyo's, buying all these different flavours needed is quite expensive when you are experimenting, may need to buy another 100 bottles.

 

I haven't scrolled back, so apologies if you've already said.. but what flavour are you using for your chocolate, Saxien?

 

TFA Bittersweet Chocolate, seems to be a very natural chocolate flavour, just sniffing it out of the bottle it's just like a choc bar

 

i wonder if you've tried your mixes saxien? how did the choco custard go? and your other recipes and tweaks?

 

going to start sometime today with a couple of the earliest ones

 

Here's a few Iv'e just tried--not quite right YET!,
Cinnamon Custard Apple-- Apple is a hard one I just can't seem to get right.
Cinnamon Danish-- 12%
Green Apple --3%
Vanilla Custard --3%.
Going to cut out the overpowering sweet apple taste and try coconut with Vienna Cream instead.

Banana Creme Shortcake
Banana Creme --3%
Bavarian Cream--6%
G Cracker(clear)--10%
Vanilla Custard--4%.
OK, but will go back to using Vienna Cream and 2% Ripe Banana, this one is blandish and leave's a pie crust aftertaste.

Mocha Coffee.
Mocha--8%
Coffee--4%
Mocha still may be a little strong-nice bitterness although the Coffee has been overpowered, needs something to sweeten it up - but only by a little tho.

Cinnamon Bavarian Cream.
Cinnamon Danish--10%
Bavarian Cream--4%
Going back to Vienna Cream.

Choc Mix.
Bittersweet Choc--8%
Coffee--4%
Vanilla Custard--6%
English Toffee--2%
Fresh Cream--2%

Close, but maybe too many ingredients, going to change or cut the Coffee to 2%, change or cut the English toffee to Caramel, up the Fresh Cream to 4%.
Still tasting this one, it's nice but not there yet.
I have so many drippers on the go right now my taste buds are spinning out. Maybe too many tried at once, but I'm impatient!

So it's Back to the drawing board !