Re use of tinctures in DIY juice

Please forgive me if this question has been asked before...I am a professional distiller who makes tictures for flavoured vodka's, liqueurs etc. I have made tinctures of David.comstin rose petals, cloves, cardamon,bitters etc ...they have steeped in 95.6% azeotrope alcohol...I was wondering if I need to boil off the alcohol from the oils before using these as flavourings...they are very concentrated, so I should not need much. OR if I could just use VG and let the alcohol break down the viscosity...This is my first try at this ...so any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Cheers
Doc

 

I would boil off .. but other hand wouldn't hurt have alcohol in it still give extra bite I used to add 1ml vodka to VG 100% to water it down little ...

 

If they are oils I'd be wary. Not sure if they're the same but essential oils in juices have been known to react with polycarbonate and crack it (I.e. clearos and cartomizer tracks)

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

Alcohol in very small amounts is OK, two or three drops per 5/10ml is sometimes used to thin a thick VG e-liquid. In large amounts it can be a short term intoxicant. I don't believe the long term affects of using alcohol this way has really been studied (but you might have more information on this subject) and the use of personal vaporisers for inhaling anything other than PG, VG, Nicotine and flavourings is not encouraged or supported here. ;- )

If your tinctures are highly concentrated and you are only using a few drops anyway, the alcohol content is not going to be a problem at all. Just as a rule of thumb, you would want to keep the alcohol content under 2% if possible.

The other thing is that whatever flavourings you use need to be water soluble to work correctly in the atomiser, the main problem being wicking and separation of flavouring oils etc, so while most of what we use is food grade flavourants, there are some special requirements.

The use of PG can make things a lot easier, since some substances that are not water soluble can be dissolved in PG (the reason it's used in a lot of pharmaceuticals including injectable medicines) and the PG is then blended with the other ingredients.

I do some extractions myself using PG, mainly coffee and teas for my own DIY stuff. The main problem being that most of the flavour comes from the nose and not everything translates to a good flavour when it is vaped. You might be surprised at just how different some of your products are when put in a vaporiser, but I'm sure you're going to have a good time trying things out. Apart from the extractions, I am mostly using FlavourArt (FA) and The Flavour Apprentice (TFA, PA) flavourings from Vaping Cobra.

 

I'm with Bones- too much alcohol will give you a huge throat hit.

*rolli waits for the "oil .comses popcorn lung" crew to come in and tell why oil is bad.


(Ps - I don't believe that to be true)

 

Oils aint oils.
eg, there are mineral oils and there are essential/volatile/aromatic oils/organic oils etc. Having the word 'oil' in it means nothing, (unless it's a mineral oil which would be bad to vape almost by de.comlt), you have to take each chemical on its own merit.
I didn't word that well but ya know what I mean.

 

Thank you very much for the prompt replies... I might boil off some and do a comparison with the full strength tinctures. The concentration levels are very high. So do not anticipate using large volumes as a percentage of the total juice. Some of the tinctures will definately have significant oil content such as rose petal. But if I can nail it, I think it would be a really unique vape. If necessary I can put the tinctures through a detuned glass laboratory still to get rid of most of the alcohol. I am very interested in making a clove tincture to replicate the Kretek cigarettes of Indonesia. If anyone has made a Kretek clove vape I would appreciate any guidance...Thanks again for the assistance.
Doc

 

Clove oils and extracts are one of the things that can react with polycarbonates. It would be better to put that one into a glass device or a dripper. Clove can be rather overpowering so I advise you to be very .comtious with concentrations. If you make it strong it could have some adverse affects if you vape it for any length of time.

It's often best to use a basic tobacco flavour like RY4 and add flavourings to it slowly until you get the right effect.

It sounds like you will need to get a few dripping attys for testing purposes: eg 306/510 Single Coil Bridgeless Atomiser

 

Thank you Fabricator I will chase down an atomiser. Cheers.
Doc

 

No worries, I'm sure we are all looking forward to hearing how you go with your experiments.

 

One more question if I may be so bold...I make a cask strength single malt whiskey which is 60%abv it is called Belle Epoque. I am afriad that boiling off the alcohol would dramatically change the flavour and nose. Sotwo questions, what is the highest abv I could use, or alternately if I passively evaporated the alcohol by placing it in the sun on my kitchen windowsill do you think the remaining whiskey fluid, would still have too much water. The whiskey itself is very lush with lots of flavour. Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks for the help, it is all starting to make more sense. Cheers.
Doc

 

I've done some experiments with 40%abv bourbon and the flavour was quite strong when the quantity of bourbon used was 33%v/v in the final product. I did not process the bourbon in any way. I think I only used it for dripping so I wasn't too bothered about how thin the liquid was. I wasn't game to use the barrel proof stuff I had here, be.comse I hadn't thought to evaporate the alcohol off so simply. (worried about losing the flavour)

Assuming you evaporate the alcohol off, I think I would try the product at about 15% v/v and adjust from there. You might want to go up to 20% or even 25% depending on what final result you are looking for. I prefer to be conservative with flavourings and add more if required be.comse it's very easy to get it wrong and overshoot.

I think the viscosity of the product at these levels might be OK in most devices, but you might consider using 40%VG in the final product if 25% is a water based flavourant just to thicken it up a bit. The problem is if the liquid is too watery in a tank it can.comtowick into the coil and flood it easily. Dripping at any viscosity should not be a problem.

Lots of "thinks" and "supposes" in this post, but it's the best I can do without first sampling the product in question ;- )

 

Mate that is exactly the information I need to get a start. I am happy to experiment, but know that starting blindly can be a very frustrating process. I have a 46% and a 42 % whiskey as well so I will give them all a go..thank you so much for your patience with my questions ...I really apreciate your assistance. To see my whiskeys have alook here if you get a chance. WHISKEY
Thanks again...Cheers.
Doc
P.S. if this works out I will send a bottle to Mackay..Mate you have earned it, thanks.

 

I'll oblige.

Recently there was video posted (by Noe I think?) of an interview with a chemistry academic about the safety of e-liquid ingredients. Something he said about using oils in e-liquid stuck in my mind; "have you seen the way steam from cooking with oil coats things with grime that stays forever, unless you clean it with detergent?"

Yes, I have seen this. I live in an old house without a proper kitchen ex.comst fan and every bloody surface in the kitchen gets coated with grease grime.....not a nice thought to imagine the inside of your lungs from vaping it. Especially if you're into vaping for harm minimisation reasons.

Edit: there was also a doctor on the show, I think it was him who said the lungs are adept at handling anything water soluble, but much less able to deal with oil based stuff.

 

Thank you Jen... I am looking into how the Turkish make rose water I hope to remove the oils if possible...so much to learn. I know that cracking oil molecules give a smoke not unlike Glycol or Glycerin. Cracked oil is used in orchard foggers for pesticide carriage...so I will be very careful with the oils. Thank for the input Jen.
Doc
P.S. we have a res.comrant and the very worst job is the cleaning of the oil filters over the stove... boy I would not want to ingest that.

 

Haha, no worries. I was mostly joking. Only mostly mind you.

I like that you used the Westie on the Marlowe label. Is there a story behind it?

I'm partial to the breed myself as you might tell from my avatar. "Ever Vigilant" is correct. "Stubborn" and "Bloody Minded" would also work but wouldn't look as good on the label. ;- )

 

I hope you figure out how to make rose water! I've been dreaming of finding a Baklava flavoured juice for ages, it's one of my favourite desserts. : )

 

All the whiskeys are named after dogs I have known and loved...Marlowe was a Westie and a bit of a star..she was featured in a number of commercials, my dog, excelpet, foxtel etc..she was very smart and well trained. I now have 4 dogs, A border collie, a canadan/silkie cross, a jack russell and a greyhound. All bring a lot of happiness to us. You are right about westie being stubborn...boy when they do not want to do something you have no chance... But they are really loyal and are quite smart. I try to name products after the dogs be.comse it keeps their memory alive. Dogs are some of my favourite people.
Doc

 

That's a great story. Fergus our Westie is not famous except I used him on a business card once, but his favourite thing is TV ads featuring dogs. I've never known a dog to watch TV like him and I'm sure he thinks we keep a constant supply of dogs, cats, cows, horses and birds in the lounge room just for him. Has been known to demand that the TV be turned on. :- D

 

Fergus is a great name...all ou r dogs ignore the Telly except the canuk terrier who is just like Fergus...He loves shows especially Hamish McBeth
Doc